Death of a Pet vs Death of a Child
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I would love it if you could please take a moment to answer this poll before reading this article.
Is the death of a pet as important or devastating as the death of a child?
See results without votingWhere this question began for me.
Many years ago, I worked at a "Mom and Pop" Hallmark card shop in the center of town. It wasn't all just cards, mind you. There, we sold local touristy memorabilia, playing cards, wrapping paper, ribbons, bows, various collectors items, jewelry and jewelry boxes, stationary, what have you. Our customers were local, mostly friends, neighbors, acquaintances, family. We had much in the way of repeat business, of course. Those we didn't know we soon got to knowing.
Conversations struck up time and again about Mrs. Wasserby's aches and pains, Faye's vehicle troubles, Mr. Primm's pacemaker, Ms. Stacy's granddaughters. Mr. Selsnick came in time and again to flirt with the salesladies at the cash register as he made his weekly purchase for a longtime friend.
The employees were amusing to work with. Barbara always had a tissue up her sleeve, which she made frequent use of. Jane always wore an interesting new pin which none of us wasted any time talking about. Mark, the owner's son, a bit of a simpleton, but kindhearted, was always praised by us for one little thing or another, and always enjoyed our teases.
In a nutshell, life there was normally entertaining, peaceful, enjoyable.
We had our share of odd customers, mind you. Some odder than others. All of us teamed up to make sure all ran smoothly, and then of course had a good laugh and gossip session about the whole thing.
Every once in a while, especially during special holidays and occasions which would pop up, such as Graduation, Mother's day, Fathers day, etc. we would have to rearrange or move cards from one spot to the other. It was, I must say, a task we fought over. As tedious of a job as it was, it provided a bit of a break from the norm.
Most of our cards, however, stuck together in their order like an army platoon. Birthday cards, for example. General, brother, sister, mother, father, cousin, whatnot, each stayed in their groupings, side by side, above or below, no matter where they were moved. We never asked why, it was just the way it was traditionally done.
During these rearrangement times, there was a bit more confusion in directing customers to the location of their particularly desired cards. We made it through all right, with a chuckle. Thankfully we were not a group of employees that simply pointed the way. We were kind enough to walk them directly to the location they requested.
One Day
On one such day, a woman came in looking for the sympathy cards. Our manager, Sharon, was the one that guided this woman, on the verge of tears, to the section in which she needed to be. It was a busy day and the three of us were manning the cash registers, ringing as fast as our fingers could ring. I don't know how we did it, but we could clear a crowd faster than anything, enabling us to spend a few moments in which to catch our breath and chat before the next cash register frenzy began.
It was at just such a lull in traffic that we were faced with a situation like none any of us had had to cope with before. We had completely forgot about the sympathy cards woman until she came at us in a most furious state. She slapped her card down on the counter and reached into her purse for her wallet, her hands shaking. Her whole being shaking. Her eyes shot back and forth between the three of us, Barb, Jane, and I, and with what seemed like all the control she could muster, she yelled at us, "How could you dare even think to put the loss of a pet beside the loss of a child. The death of a child is the most devistating thing in the world and should not come even remotely close to the loss of a PET!"
We were in shock. I don't think any of us knew what to think at that startling moment. She went on. We tried to console her. We tried to let her know we understood. We tried... She stormed out.
We all had our words amongst ourselves about this unexpected moment and thought. We all understood her grief. At the same time, we all thought, "Where ought we to place them, then?" The situation was talked about the rest of the afternoon.
The unfairness of death
I must be truthfully honest here. At the time, I felt as though the woman was over reacting. It was just a card. In amongst other cards. Would it have been any different if it were located near a Congratulations, or near a Birthday, or near a Bar Mitzvah card?
It is a natural fact, however, that the unfairness of death, of any kind of death, can bring any sane individual to the brink of madness.
So many, many, years after this occurance at the little Hallmark shop, I can say that I finally understand this fact; that I too over reacted to something that perhaps was not as terrible as it seemed, at the time, due to being overwhelmed, myself, over the unfairness of a death, and one much closer to home than the sympathy card lady's.
To this day, even having gone through both the death of many pets, as well as the death of a child, I still do question if there is a difference, and I wonder what circumstances could one argue for either side?
Of course these are questions that could be answered in quite a few ways. Put yourself in quite a few shoes and you will find quite a few answers. There are as many answers and emotions held within this issue, as there are greeting cards. No one can answer the question of personal importance and devistation but the questioner. Yet I find it hard to believe that we cannot all see the other side of the coin.
For that child that has just lost its very best friend in the whole world, the only one that was always there, the only one that listened and seemed to love unconditionally, the only one that pressed itself close, did all to please, kissed away tears, rubbed away sorrow, lay close at night; that pet's death would be as devistating as any child's death would be to a mother or father, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it hurt just as bad so many eternities later, possibly even causing complete breakdowns well past the time one would think the pain would be over?
And couldn't one say the same about about a pet who was the "child" in that person or couple's life who perhaps never had kids of their own? That pet that was doted on, loved, all motherly or fatherly affections poured upon, every loyal act acknowled by, that unbreakable bond disrupted so unfairly by death, natural or not?
To the elderly who have no one else in the world. Whom all have abandoned or whose friends and or family hav died away. The only close and loyal thing to them their pet. Wouldn't they feel the same?
The one who has special needs or is handicapped, the one whose pet helped them out of a seizure, who helped them cross the street, who protected them from a burglary, who stood in the line of fire, what did their pets mean to them? How did they feel when their pet died?
Again, I state, no one can answer the question of personal importance and devistation but the questioner.
Pet owners burying their dead pets in a pet cemetery.
The following commentary, poem, and photo, illustrates the feelings many have about their pets:
I recently lost my dog Pepper. I found your sight and the picture below and I wrote this from my heart. God and Goddess bless you all for helping us.
Please remember the homeless with this image with my little poem. It is my heart bleeding forever...It is my little tribute to the best person I ever knew.
Please forgive me for stealing your picture but it is so much right for what I feel!!!
My Dogs Hug (Inspired by Pepper in the Heart of Sativarg)
My dogs hug melted my heart.
His voice woke me from night mares
His eyes reflected my soul
My dogs hug was life in heaven
His ears pointed to danger or wonder
His tail was a poem of words unspoken
My dogs hug made me real
His laughter was sweet ambrosia
His presence Is irreplaceable.
God and Goddess bless my dog forever.
Amen
So let it be
Still questioning
You may be wondering where I have placed the importance and devistation of a child in all of this; that I have not given equal weight to this side of the story.
The knowledge of the tremendous grief that comes with the loss of a child, be it your own or another's, needs no justification. It is, to me, a given. It is, to me, universal. While some of us may take it better or differently than others, the fact remains that the loss of a child is one of the most painful things in the world. There is no questioning this fact.
But my thoughts go back to the woman at the shop, who, so infuriated, she demeaned the emotions of those who perhaps wore a different pair of shoes than she did. Those, who not for a second, would have questioned her, and would have hoped, expected, the same respect in return.
I am not questioning her reaction or where it came from; I am questioning whether or not, after years went by for her, does she see the role that pets do often times play in people's lives? Does she understand that the death of a pet and the death of a child can, to some, seem as mortifying?
Does she understand that people feel differently about different things and that we are not to judge who or how much they love another person or creature?
As for myself, I do know how I feel, what my answer would be to the question of whether or not the death of a pet is more important or devastating than the death of a child. It is my opinion. I cannot judge others theirs. It is my personal view to know, experience, and understand in my own way based on my own experiences, and the particular time and stage in my life in which I am viewing or posing this question.
Just as it is every other person's.
Comments welcome.
Thank you for taking your time to read this article. Now that you have, your time in answering this final poll is greatly appreciated.
Is the death of a pet as important or devastating as the death of a child?
See results without votingThe Christmas Box Angel Statue
- Women Series - Gallery Two
Susan Friedman Photography website. Photo of woman with cat found here. - Olivia Marie Caldwell
Blog, written in memory of the loss of a child, Olivia Marie Caldwell. Offers support, and support contacts information, to others who have lost a child. The Christmas Box Angel statue information can be found here. - PET DEATH
Article on helping your child cope with the death of a pet, including reactions and what you can do. - Houston groups come to aid of elderly, sick pet owners
This article is a wonderful article about the importance of pets to the elderly and one group that is making it possible for these owners to take care of their much loved and needed pets when the rising cost of care is too much.
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Hello there Elena. You beat me to my revision. I was going to take a look at it this afternoon with a fresh eye to make sure I meant what I said. I tidied up the last section a small bit, you may or may not notice, but I do not believe it changes the conclusion much. I had not realized this article would be read so fast. Thank you.
And thank you so much for sharing your opinion on this. Many will agree with you and I hope they feel comfortable enough to comment. I, myself, am going to try my hardest not to give my opinion up, and do hope that people with all sorts of views will bring their comments to the table and share any experiences they may have had, knowing that they are free to do so.
Soulabee, this is a beautiful first hub! I voted no at the top, but after reading your words, I eventually voted 'yes' at the end.
Now, for me personally, the death of a child is beyond tragic. My husband and I lost a little boy 9 years ago. And we've also lost several dogs. We buried them, even gave them each a sandblasted rock "headstone". But the emotions weren't even on the same plain.
But the poem especially gave me another interesting thought. Everyone's attachment to those people or animals in their lives are different. The loss of a pet, depending on the relationship the person had with that pet, could very well be as devastating. It most certainly isn't my place to judge another's emotions. They are what they are. And we all have them, with varying degrees.
So this has has been a very touching piece of writing for me. Thank you.
Hi SoulaBee, and welcome. This is a very interesting question. My story is as follows: I have never had children, but I have had dogs. One dog was, to use the cliche', like my son to me. Really. I had raised him from a pup to an old age, and the adventures we had shared, the hardships the triumphs, his fierce loyalty and devotion. We were together almost always. Putting him down was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I was unbearably sad, morose and despondent. Every one will say, 'I know how you feel." I am guilty of this too, but the fact is, no, you don't. Your pain is exclusive to you. How you feel is yours. My pain is mine and they are not necessarily the same.
I DO think the lady in the shop overreacted on a huge scale. But, under the circumstances, we can allow her this transgression, can't we. It would have been interesting if someone was at the counter buying a deceased pet card at the same time, and they had taken exception to the lady.
All that being said, regardless how I was impacted by my "boy's" loss, I would never give it the importance of losing a human child. That is not to say that someone can't feel just as devastated, but it can never be given the same importance. This is just the way it is, to my mind.
Anyway, it's an interesting question for discussion, but as far as I am concerned there is only one conclusion; yes, losing a pet can be as emotionally devastating, but it can never be given the same importance.
So I didn't change my vote at the end. Perhaps this was a knee-jerk response. Never-the-less, I think I have explained my feelings adequately.
I'm trying to figure out what the lady was so pissed at in the first place. I know what she said, but.....
Great hub, if you didn't notice i felt that way! Ha!
P.S. I hate that "moving the cards" around crap. That's so that the customers have to go look for the card they want and never get to learn that a particular card is always in one specific location, so this way they are exposed to more things for sale in the store, and thereby possibly encouraged into buying something they did not come for. Ticks me off.
Hello Laughing Mom. Thank you for sharing your thought process with us. The poem find was a very good one, I have to agree, and I'm quite glad I stumbled upon it. The point you make about this is a good one. The site it, and it's adjoinging picture, comes from was one started by a teacher whose classroom wanted to do something special in the way of charity work. It's one to check out if you're interested; I have posted it in the links capsule.
Thank you for stopping by , and I'm glad it was a good read for you.
Hello, Christoph, thank you for commenting and taking the polls. I do appreciate that.
I'm very glad you shared your story. Thank you for being so thorough. It's good to see why people come up with their decisions. Three different stories here, so far. This is wonderful.
As for the lady, I feel as though I know why she reacted the way she did, but I am not certain that I understand the escalation, except to say that we all come at death a bit differently. Perhaps too many people had told her "I understand" and she felt that no one really did, and that situation was the straw that broke the camels back for her. (Another great point you make, and I don't recall as I ever thought of that aspect, but it does seem to fit right in here.)
You are correct in your assumptions of the card switcharoo reasons. It was all marketing. Thankfully it was a small shop. Glad you stopped by. Thanks again.
Hi SoulaBee. Great hub. I've been on both sides of the story, like laughing mom. I totally see where Christoph is comming from, and Eleni, too. It's a tough call, because I can really see where those whose pets are their babies, their entire lives pour into them, are comming from. I'm still not over the loss of my first pet, quite honestly. She was my special bud and was there for me when I felt like no one else was. Her devotion to me was unsurpassed. But I have also lost a child (seems a lot of people have, which is a really scary thought, and it's not talked about much, at least not that I've heard). If I think about it in general, I see that I can agree and say yes to the final poll, but ultimately, when I really search my heart, I have to say that the death of a child would have to win out.
This is a touchy subject and a lots of people have strong feelings about this stuff. I'll have to check back and see what stories and opinions people have to share about this! Interesting topic. Thanks for sharing.
Welcome to HubPages.
Hey Frieda! I'm still amazed at the number of people that I've known for quite a while who have lost a child and I never knew. I think it can be such a personal thing to some that it's almost like you don't want anyone else in there. Does that make sense? I'm the only one who ever got to hold him and I selfishly keep that as my own personal treasure.
Now my dogs....don't get me started. I could tell you about them all day!!!!!!
See, now you know how weird I am. :P
Actually, I think Frieda's known that for quite some time..... :-)
Hi Frieda, thanks, do come back.
Laughing Mom, I do see what you mean by it being so personal you don't want anyone else in there. Perhaps this is correlated to how important a child is to us as opposed to our pets? i don't know. Lucky you got to hold him. Thank you for sharing that story with us. We do seem to be so much more comfortable talking about our dogs and pets in general.
very thought provoking read. very gentle and considerate too.
What a Hub!! I had to vote no. I could only turn this one on its head and say to myself, if it was a choice between one of my kids and a pet..................
Pain is pain and measuring it will be different for each and every person. We have known people who will not ever again get another pet because it was so painful when they died. Having lost many pets through the years, assuredly it is hard. We do not have children, but I can imagine that it would be even worse.
My mother lost her husband (my dad) and her son (my brother) and she tells me that losing a child is the worst case scenerio. Her grief was terrible in both instances so I just have to take her word for it. Painful for me as well.
Great first hub. Looking forward to more from you!
Great article. Here is my take on it. Some people think of their pets as their children, bottom line. It doesn't matter how ridiculous some people think this is, it doesn't matter if people think humans are more worthy of grief than animals; it just doesn't matter. I do not have, nor plan on having children, so I cannot speak from that point of view. I had a dog from when I was seven years old until I was twenty, and I was devastated when I had to put her to sleep. Eight years later, I still miss her. I work at an animal hospital, and I had a client tell me just last week that she hadn't been back to our clinic for years until that day because she brought her beloved dog to be put to sleep with one of our doctors and she couldn't stand to be in the building after that. I definitely think that for some people losing a pet is exactly like losing a child, and I can guarantee if you had worked at a card shop that did not carry sympathy cards for pets, you would have heard from an angry pet owner.
Thanks for the article; I really enjoyed it!
I love our Cocker Spaniels just as much as our son and I would be devastated at the loss of any of them. I realize some will disagree but our dogs are a part of our family and they are also babies to us. So if I ever see a sympathy card sitting side by side children vs pets, it would not bother me as to me the pain is equal, as a person one must have compassion for another and understand their pain, I thank you so much for this wonderful article!!!:)
What a great first hub. Nw I love my pets. All of them, 4 dogs and three birds and sic fish in the pond on the patio as well as two cats which I hate but are the pleasure of my wife, Wee One. We are grandparents and love evry child we have. We lost our eldest, my step-son three years ago. Very painful indeed. I can only say that if one of our puppies died it would be just as painful and even worse if it was Jado our Parrot or the smaller one Sunny. they have become our children in place of the ones who have left the nest. We have the same affection towards them, but people are people and a child is so much more than a pet even tho' we almost love them equally.
Thank you goldentoad, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for checking out my first hub.
Hello, danjutsu. As you can see, a lot of people commenting seem to be in agreement with you. I like that, "turn it on it's head".
Thank you so much, Peggy, for sharing your story and your mother's. We really do have to take other people's word for it, as far as their personal emotional oppinion goes. That certainly doesn't make our own feelings any less for the moment we are in. I feel it's important to be sensitive to both those things. Thanks so much, again, for sharing.
Tallullah3, I have been waiting for someone with your opinion to come along. Thank you so much for reading this article and for commenting with such adamance. I am more than certain there would have been more than one disgruntled person if we did not sell pet sympathy cards. You're right on that. I'm so glad you enjoyed this article. Very nice to meet you.
AE, are you stalking me? how did you answer before I did. damn. how'd you end up here when I did?
AEvans, thanks for sharing your story. Compassion is so very important! I'm glad you enjoyed this article, so glad you stopped by.
C.C., Hello! Very nice to see you. Thank you for sharing your story and thoughts with us. That's a lot of pets! I'm sure there's never a dull moment. Parrots live a long time, don't they? So glad to hear from you and I'm very pleased you enjoyed this hub. Thank you much.
Glad to see there is getting to be a nice variety of family make ups in these comments.
I am quick!!!! I forgot to mention our 5 Cockatiels , I see you have a lot of pets too!!! She created a wonderful hub!!!!
My Jado will live to be about 80. we hope. AE, you are quick, and beat me agin. haha
AEvans. Do they all share the same cage? I knew a lady once you sectioned off a large alcove in her home, and somehow made the whole area into a bird sanctuary cage thingamabob. Very clever. It was a beautiful sight. She had many many birds and they all seemed as happy as could be. (And thank you for the compliment, I thank you very very much! I think my cheeks are turning red.)
C.C. 80 is a very long time. How did you come to share your life with Jado?
Jado chose us after we met him and went back to visit. he was thre months old. very smart. Solomon Island Eclectus
My goodness. Sounds exciting and meant to be.
80 year old Parrots aside, when we get a dog or cat, it is with the caveat that they will die in X number of years. Not so with children (unless they have a condition, but that's another story.) A pet may be killed before their 14 years, or 10 years or 6 years if they have a bloodhound, but still, we knew they would die in our lifetime.
Lets go into another area. About pet cards. Do you mean to tell me that there are just general pet cards, like one card fits all pets? Are there cat and dog cards? How can you put the dead cat cards near the dog cards, since dogs clearly are superior. How dare you? I'm never shopping here again!
thanks SoulaBee for a very insightful hub - particularly for your very first - look forward to reading more from you - I voted at the begining of your hub and did not change my mind when I voted again and tragic as it is to lose a pet - particularly a dog (Tongue firmly in cheek here ) - really it is not to be compared with the loss of a child - strictly of course from my personal point of view - and without denigrating anyone else's pain or feelings of loss - many miscarriages left me with such pain for many years and although I have had and enjoyed a number of dogs over the years which I have completely and utterly loved and adored; the pain of their deaths cannot be compared to these babies that quite frankly didn't even make into this world...Basically the child is not meant to go before the parent - that is not the way of it - and as Chris realistically says animals (leaving out the parrot) do not have the same life expectancy. So when the chld goes too early they are not just taking their lives with them but so much else goes also.... cheers
I am touched by your article. I recall when I believed death was unfair, then I realized that birth and death are two poles of the miracle life cylce we find oursleves in an that neither death, nor the manner of death, not the time of death can be unfair. Who are we to dictate when and how we should die?
Christoph, you make an excellent point. We do buy our pets knowing that their life will most probably finish well before ours. Very good point to discuss!
As per your question, they do have death of a cat, death of a dog, perhaps even death of a guinea pig, rat, ferret, parrot, horse perhaps, ... however you may want to take up your concerns with your local card shop and inquire as to which pet deaths they cater to. If you are in a bind and do not have time to express your concerns, you may like to think about purchasing a general pet card and drawing a picture of the type of animal you are needing the card for, in likeness of course. A good magazine cut and paste will do well too. Either of these will certainly show that you truly care and may be more valuable and comforting to the pet owner whose pet has passed.
As for superiority and order, you may want to speak to management and find out who is at the top. I believe there is probably a standard they must follow. Of course I have seen activists on this very issue take a stand by physically rearranging the cards themselves. This may be an option for you. Another great discussion topic. Thanks.
Ha, ha.
Hello, anne, thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your story. I really appreciate your comment on your experiences. Yes Chris makes a good point. (He's a funny one, isn't he?)
Thank you for your words Rich. Much appreciated and definitely something for us all to think about. Good point. Am very glad you enjoyed this article.
Well I am going to explain my take, and it will not be popular, but I don't care,. Pets arrive because animals know no better, or some stupid person, has bred them.
People do know better. Liofe is basically going to have good and bad in it, so anyone that has a kid, can expect for maybe it to not make it, I mean we are intellegent, or are we, we realise that what we are doing is setting someone up for all the ills and horrors of life, they may get lucky, Russian rollette, most people these days seem to have all sorts of hangups. I dont, have children, never been fussed on them,and frankly felt, why have a kid so it could die of some horrible illness, I have pretty much a good time as I make the most of every day, if asked would I have wanted to be born, I guess I would have said, yes, many peoples answers would not be the same. Pets have always mattered to me, So why anyone would think a pet was less than a kid. is beyond me.
Pets get to know you are great friends, and they look out for you. People basically aren't wired that way.
Great Hub one of the best I answered positive to pets at the starting poll, and did not change throughout the story.
Mandybeau, great comment! Thank you so much for sharing your story and thoughts with us. Popular or not, deep down I think a lot of people feel that way. And an attachment is an attachment. Pets do look out for you. They offer support any way they can, unconditionally. Bringing a child into this world is a risk. As is the adoption of a pet. Both equal risks. Anything can happen at any time. Life is a risk in and of itself. So glad you enjoyed this hub. Thanks so very much.
I loved your hub. Was very sensitive and thought provoking. I could feel the pain of that woman who had the reaction in the shop and maybe I'd have done the same thing. But I wasn't in her shoes and nor am I in the shoes of a pet owner who has lost their companion.
My personal standpoint takes on a Human v Animal angle. I understand that people state that animals are God's creatures. Yes. Same as the trees and flowers. I don't negate animals are a major major source of companionship and support for people.
I go into a sense of grief seeing that people have had to look toward an animal to fulfill a need for love, and that it was not forthcoming from another human being. It's a bit different from your hub, but it's because of this that I can't put a pets life ahead of a human life. So I could walk in that woman's shoes and feel the insult. But I'm not stupid enough to see that humans feel forced to find comfort from animals over humans. That says allot for the human condition. That saddens me.
Thanks Jewels for sharing your thoughts here. Gives us yet another viewpoint to think about. I think a lot of people would find it hard to put a pet's life in front of a human life.
For some reason the movie Year of the Dog with Molly Shannon comes to mind in your last paragraph. Great movie and touches on what you talk about.
I don't actively go out seeking companionship from dogs or cats or parrots, I just like them better, I have alot of friends, and have always been popular,and my main slant was, I dont freakin know why people bother having children so that those children can go on to need to find a pet if they are not popular etc.etc.
The whole idea of having children to me is crazy... I don't see any end result. But then I have no particular religious beliefs, so perhaps that is why, I have always based everything on fact and fact alone.
For example I do understand someone being terribly upset, when someone pet or person close to them dies, but I don't get how a miscarriage or abortion, would worry, you too much I mean Hello, you didn't get to know the group of cells did you???? To many people are like your card shop lady just plain drama queens.
Jewels, It is horrible when someone dies, and that is a pet or a person, and before you just write me of as a callous cold hearted bitch, which I have been called many times, the people that I know that have died, have been ill and old and pleasd to leave this mortal core. They can tell you this an animal can just look at you with hazed over eyes and you have to decide, so if there is a God out there, which I personally doubt, sometimes, why do people and pets have to suffer anyway. No one is born no one gets sick, no one cares and no one dies.
thought provoking hub
Hey there, mandybeau. Thanks for commenting again. I have two friend that feel exactly the same as you do. It may not be a popular viewpoint. And people may give you a hard time about it. I've heard people tell my friends, "oh, you'll change your mind when the time comes..." or whatever. But the fact is, those people are probably wrong about that. My friends are the way they are and that's the way it is. I applaud them for standing ground on their beliefs, no matter how popular or unpopular.
It takes all kinds of people to make up this world. With all kinds of thoughts, opinions, beliefs, ways of life, etc. We all have our opinions. I've been thrilled that so many varieties of opinions are shared in this hub and hope for more to come.
I don't feel as though anyone has given anyone else a hard time about their opinion (of course I may not be aware of any behind the scenes info. or past disagreements). I do know that we are not all going to agree, and so it's important to respect and allow others' opinions and disagree when we disagree. Pointing out that you disagree with so and so is just fine. Being able to speak out and giving your own opinion or response is often times necessary. And to me, is perfectly okay. It's a freedom we should all appreciate and share. We're not all alike. We don't all feel the same. That is one of the most important aspects of this particular hub.
So thank you, mandybeau, for sharing your views on this. Someone else is sure to comment with the same thoughts in mind.
Lgali, thank you.
I forgot to say this Hub was very well thought out, it is thought provoking, and everyone has been really tolerarating of others opinions, no one has actually told me i am totally wrong as all most of my personal friends do.
i hadn't realised that this was your first Hub Very impressive.
Mandybeau
mandybeau, I far from think you as cold or callous. That's not the point I was making at all. It's more that we humans let each other down. When humans give up on getting basic needs met like love and companionship. I think humans suck in the caring department. We need to go to human caring school and get back to basics.
"but I don't get how a miscarriage or abortion, would worry, you too much I mean Hello, you didn't get to know the group of cells did you???? To many people are like your card shop lady just plain drama queens."
well hello indeed mandybeau - if you had invested a number of years into producing a number of cells that could have manifested into a baby which if born, would carry with them the family joys, wishes, hopes and dreams for a future that possibly included them - & would maybe have extended into generations still to come but which unfortunately was not to be because your "children/babies/clump of cells" didn't quite make it to the labour ward for whatever reason - flushed down the lav so to speak - so sad as it is for the would-be parents, I think that only when you have travelled their path would you maybe have the right to refer to these little ones as a "clump of cells" - maybe even if you couldn't come to grips with this particular pain can't you understand it would probably be better all around if you kept your somewhat unsympathetic ideas to yourself - I suggest you invest in the feelings,hopes, and plain physical walk of other people before you comment so callously whatever your personal thoughts on the matter - feel the pain before you stamp on others dreams and call them drama queens - most people try to walk in others shoes and understand what makes others tick before they jump in boots and all - it really is even possible that while some people do sincerely love their animals they may still prefer to nurse a baby of their own! I truly love my animals but after 5 miscarriages my pain has not gone - & no doubt will never go....and as for referring to the loss of baby in invitro in the same breath and terminology as being one and the same as in "a miscarriage or abortion"whatever, can be also be interpreted as being a little insulting - some things happen through choice, & others through a form of natural attrition neither is healthy nor painless for the woman involved but basically options and choices kick in here.... from a drama queen
Thanks Mandybeau. Always good to have a place to just say what you feel without being ridiculed for it. And actually, not THAT impressive, although I do really love this one probably the most. This is my 15th hub. I'm Frieda Babbley. But there were certain topics I felt more at ease to write about under SoulaBee. I don't know why. So i just went for it. I don't do any of the affiliate advertising as SoulaBee. Glad you came back to comment. Thanks for that.
Hey Jewels, thanks for comming back to comment. It is unfortunate that so often our pets are more loyal than our people. Have you seen the movie I posted the trailer for under the comments?
Ajcor, choice and natural attrition are definitely things to consider! Thanks for bringing that up. We don't always consider both sides like that. I really appreciate you sharing your story. It is devastating and something one can't get over, and a very delicate matter. I can understand your being upset, okay beyond upset, with mandybeau's words. But you know, not all people think or feel the same for one reason or another.
It may not be for me to say, but I do think mandybeau was probably commenting a bit defensively because of people's usual reactions to what she feels, believes, has to say. She's certainly not the only one to have this opinion. She's also not living the lives of others, just as we are not living her life. You do express good solid points and perhaps a side others did not consider, and thank you for that.
I saw the trailor and it looks like a good movie. I'll see if it's still on in my area. Thanks.
Actually it's out on DVD. I watched it a few months back, maybe September or October?
ok soulabee - you got me (so gently reprimanded ...lol) - I apologise for my " okay beyond upset"words and of course I agree that everyone on the face of this earth has the right to express their thoughts - seems this one got to me though - being a trifle over sensitive I guess - delete my comment if you wish .....cheers
While I coudn't compare the death of a child with the death of a pet - I still do adore my dogs and probably spend more time looking after them than I do my teenage daughter!
That said, I still find it funny about those Hallmark cards. Would the lady have been as upset if she found the sympathy card rack next to weddig or engagement congratulatory cards?
I would never deny your comment ajcor, it's what you felt and I know where you are comming from. No worries please!
@Shalini I know. I often wonder that myself.
I have never had a child, but have been a nanny for years (three different families). One of my nanny kids (I hate to call them "charges") was in the hospital a few different times because his mother was neglectful and he jumped through windows, ran out into the street, etc. because of a psychological disorder. Each time, I sat with him and his mother during the emergency room time and the days following. It is nerve-racking, scary, and gut-wrenching.
When I was born, there was a dog in the house. She immediately took to me, considering me to be a "people puppy" and therefore under her guardianship. She was just like a sister to me. If I had had a human sister, I would've loved them both equally. I was devastated when she died, and every time I think of her I cry even though it was over 20 years ago.
My husband and I foster abandoned and feral (wild) kittens. Last year, one of our kittens, 10 months old, died of an undetected heart defect after only three weeks in his new adoptive home. His new owners sent us an e-mail saying that they had ordered an autopsy to find what happened, and told us the results, "because we know you loved him just as much as we did". My husband and I both took time off from work, were consumed by grief, and huddled on the couch crying for days. We put away the kitten's favorite toys because the sight of them brought back the grief. We barely even say his name, and all the sadness comes back when I look through my pictures searching for something else and I see his picture. He died too soon, the same as if a human child died. To me it's the same.
I like the hub very much, but nevertheless I think that loss of a child is more terrible than loss of a pet (thought you may love it as a child)..
Hi KT. Glad you came to share your stories and views with us. I too still cry when I think about my first dog. I remember the day she died like it just happened. Thankfully, I now don't cry as hard as I used to, but I tell you I sobbed about it for a good 20 years or so. Thank you for sharing your side.
Gin, hello. Thank you and welcome. I think most of the commenters will agree with you on this. Most of us do love our pets as if they were our children. Thanks for your thoughts.
While this is a well thought out, heart felt hub, it seems to me that the difference between the death of a child and the death of a cat is obvious. One is a child and one is a cat. Loss of a loved one is terrible and that loss is forever but the loss of a child is a loss to humanity, the loss of a cat....well, it just ain't the same. (Frieda Babbly, you like to stir things up, you're good whichever hubber you are)
Hey Dolores, I see you read the comments. ;) And thanks, I think.
A lot of people so far, have agreed with you. But there are those who don't feel the same, and those who partially do. What's been the most interesting to me is hearing people's stories and how they come to feel the way they do. Thanks for adding your views into the pot. Hope you enjoyed.
Hub going well good to see all the opinions, the one from ajcor, so doesn't bother me. I feel that i may have helped her let go. In Spain its a Balloon into the sky, on the Hubs its a good telling off for the Bad girl, believe me I can handle it. Same as i have handled all the people that thought I should live their way.
I guess i am a naughty non-conformist. As a kid I wanted to join the Legion, even though I was a female, and even though I have French ancestory, My Hero was Che Gueverra, so I am definitely not your run of the mill. My friends have given me all this before, and it hasn 't worried me.
I just think that everyone has an opinion like you do and appreciate, you for letting me have mine.
Smack me lol. I still think this is one of the best I have read.
Hey mandybeau, good to see you. And thanks! It'll be interesting to see more perseptions as this hub lulls and quails in interest. Thanks for checking back in.
G'day SoulaBee, back on subject . I feel that you are comparing apples and oranges. Like danjutsu says up top , I believe that until you were put on the spot and had to decide which to choose you would not know which way the mop would flop , so to speak.
I enjoyed the reading your hub and most of the comments.
Hi there agvulpes. Sorry it took so long to get back to you! Thank you so much for commenting. I feel it is true that when it comes down to it, the choice would be last minute and would depend on the mop's flop, yes. You could say or feel one thing, and then feel another when it came down to the moment. Some have experienced one, the other, or both types of loss. thankfully it's not about havint to choose here; more about feelings. These (feelings) are ever changing based on circumstance.
I'm so happy to hear everyones views, oppinions and feelings on this topic; that a variety of voices could be heard and allowed and accepted. For all sides to be seen and for people to back up their emotions, whether they be well thought out or not.
Most comments, yes; freedom of speech you know. Overall I think it went pretty well. So glad you came by, agvulpes. Thanks so much for commenting.
A very emotional and heart touching hub...!!
Keep writing :)
Thanks Umna. :)
I am Peppers friend and wrote My dog's hug. I lost Pepper 549 days ago on the morning of September 12th 2008. I voted yes, but I am not qualified to vote as I have never had a child. I only know how I feel. I have a pain in my chest that is not heart disease. I never felt that pain before Pepper dissapeared. I check to see if the pain is still there from time to time. It is and will be mine for as long as I breath. It is as it should be.
Thanks for asking
Chuck
I never had kids nor I intend to, so I dare not speak for a parent that lost a child, but for me, the loss of a pet is the most painful and devastating feeling that I will ever have. I lost my 15 year old Pucci over 2 years ago, and I still cry for him almost every day. I cannot drive by the hospital where he died without breaking down. He was my friend, my baby, my constant companion, my joy, my life. I also lost my 12 year old Geisha 2 days ago. That cat was an angel that made my life bearable during my darkest moments, including Pucci's death. What makes the loss of a pet even worst sometimes, is that in many instances, it's you who has to put them to sleep. You don't go through that with a child. I had to put down both Pucci and Geisha.
My whole body hurts. I feel the pain in my chest just like Chuck, and it's hard to breath sometimes. When they came into my life, I knew that moment would come, but I still wasn't prepared. Now I have Pasha, who came to me just a week after Pucci's passing. He helped me survive it. He didn't take his place, but he comforted me like no human could. I have been stabbed in the back and disappointed by even my closest of friends. Pucci never failed to make me feel good, neither did Geisha, neither does Pasha, or Tisha and Misha. They are all the light of my life, and if I've learned one thing these past two days, especially, is that you have to enjoy every moment with them and give them the happiest of lives.
The point is not to compare the amount of pain the death of a child, or the death of a pet might cause, but to have people learn to understand and respect what others feel. Even now, when all my friends know what my pets mean to me, I have gotten the "she was just an animal" response to my grief. That alone shows how inhumane people can be. Who was it that said: "The more I know men, the more I love my dog"?
The previous comments made by "LaBecs",are wonderful,the world would be a far better place if more people had the same attitude
It's been two years now. The poem on this page is only on this page now. I have never been so alone in my life. No one touches me.
I am this selfish thing now. I never had a child. So I Don't know the answer. All is regrets these days. I used to remember My friend every day. The pain of his loss has now merged with the growing ache of loneliness and self loathing. Lowliness begets meanness. Teeth grit, sleep evades, pain gets comfortable.
Regret become a person like me. All that is, is nothing without caring for some one else. I am this selfish thing now...
@Soulabee...You've done a wonderful Hub of hugs for all who ever lost a child or a pet. Both are hugged to heart and return that hugging love as fiercely.
I think it's safe to say, and should be said, that children sometimes stray from the heart for various reasons, but a pet truly loves unconditionally if given the same care that one gives a beloved child. A pet's love can be comforting even when a child is lost.
In the end, there is always another needy child or needy pet to love. Giving love is as important as receiving it.
It does have the same importance, as far as I'm concerned. That pet to that person is as important as a child to someone else. Oh, they know it's an animal; but still, that animal is not just a piece of property.
I see people fall apart as we at the vet clinic gently send a terminally ill old shepherd on his or her way out of misery. I've had to come and take someone's pet into my arms and from the room as they sit there losing their composure. I've had to hold clients while they cried their hearts out because of they discovered their old collie dead in the morning, and they can barely speak to the receptionist about the details.
I know people, three years later, who cannot look at that Great Dane puppy who reminds them of their dog who had been with them through a divorce, an abusive relationship, whatever.
So yes, the loss of a pet is always just as important as the loss of a human. ALWAYS. It's insulting in the extreme to say it isn't.
I tell you this: never, NEVER devalue someone's pet. EVER.
IMHO people who don't consider their pets as members of the family is not fit to be a pet-owner and should have their animals confiscated. Personally, the death of my cat would be more traumatizing than anything else I could imagine.
Over the years, he has become one of my most trusted friends. He never back-stabs me, he never insults me. He really doesn't give a #$%$ what I wear or how I act. He won't leave me if I'm not interesting or funny.
He doesn't get in the way of my plans. He'd still be my friend if I got arrested or lost my job. In short, He is like a son to me and I'd gratefully sacrifice any amount of people, children or otherwise to protect his loving, furry life.
"Year of the Dog" starring Molly Shannon featurette
Elena. Level 1 Commenter 3 years ago
Hi SoulaBee! I think you're right and this would be a very personal issue. For me, I can't conceive comparing the loss of a child with the loss of a pet, but that's me --and I don't have either. I still can't conceive the comparison, though.